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1. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   What do you guys think about the teenager in the States who fled to Florida because she claims that her strict Muslim parents were going to kill her for converting to Christianity?

   http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1918228,00.html

   Such a hot button issue.I don't know everything that she knows, but if she's lying then I am left completely baffled.Not that the truth would be any better,but I wouldn't want honor killings to be a knee jerk reaction for many people in the States exclusively.Honor killings are a serious and rare enough occurrence over here as is.

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   I don't know why people believe, if I read this. That's why I don't have a religion anymore. Blood has been spoiled many times because this or this religion is the best. If you are muslim, christian, or whatever other religion, one of the basic laws of all religions is to love all people in world, not only your religion...

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   But why should people abandon faith if they follow those tenets of love and acceptance? I agree, it's some select zealots or abuses of power and interpretation within religious institutions that are destructive, but religion itself doesn't have to be done away with.

   I guess it's only the bad stories that get published anyways:)

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   If you look in history books there aren't to many positive stories. It was getting better, but I feel it going worse again.
   I left my believe because I don't really believe in a god. Much doubts, sad stories, boring, etc. I'm still thankful, but not in the same way as muslims or christians does. I know Christianity is still very important in the States, don't get me wrong, I like people that believe, as long as the use their brains and not just like what the bible says.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   No,I agree.I think that my comment was more towards daily news articles,rather than what you'd read about in the history books.And while it has a lot to do with religion,I can't say that religion isn't really the aim.It's more used as a tool of manipulation by those who want or are in power, but the religion itself usually(because there are lots and lots of exceptions) doesn't promote that stuff.

   What belief were you before you left it? And why did you leave?

   I've struggled with my faith,but mainly on a questioning my mortality sort of issue.I can't say that I'm confident that there is a place after we die, but I want to believe there is.

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   I mentioned it already above, my reasons why I left my religion are much doubts, sad stories, boring, doesn't see what's the different with non-believers, etc.

   You can still be a better man if you don't believe. For example charity work

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   The poor girl is obviously going to be killed if she goes back to her family. Honor killings in Islamic fundamentalist communities (killing an apostate, killing a homosexual, killing an immodest woman, etc.), even inside the family, are not uncommon even in this day and age. Sadly enough. The Florida judge recently ruled that Rifqa is indeed in danger if she goes back home, and set a deciding trial date somewhere in the next few weeks (don't know why they need another one).

   You guys remember this?

   http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/16/buffalo.beheading/

   A New York Muslim, thought by many of his peers to be a decent and gentle man, was arrested for hacking his wife's head off after she threatened him with divorce. And that's not all. This sicko's New York TV station was aimed at countering Muslim stereotypes.

   The irony hurts.

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   I don't want to be offensive, but there are happen much strange things in the muslimworld. How can you be so extreme? It looks there brain got damaged. Any normal parent wouldn't kill his child, would they?

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   @Tinct: I guess I don't have the insight into the Muslim community to have agreed with her so quickly.I know that that is something that does occur, but the latter half of the article made me think there could be a possibility otherwise.She was even head cheerleader, so I don't know if that really does mean they are fairly liberal in the practice of their religion or what.

   I notice though that you have a Middle Eastern concentration and your articles usually reflect that; why did you decide on that subject matter as a course of study?

   Posted 2 years ago #
10. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    @Karamel: She was a cheerleader? That's interesting. Maybe her parents didn't know. I can hardly believe they'd allow her to participate in that if she's afraid of them murdering her for converting outside of Islam.

    My focus on the Middle East and Islamic fundamentalism grew out of my fascination with the Israel-Palestinian conflict. On top of using women, children, and the retarded for suicide bombings, I first heard about these abhorrent happenings (people killing apostates and homosexuals for 'honor', neighbors stoning rape victims to death, widespread pedophilia, family killing each other for similar 'honor' reasons, and so on) happening inside the Gaza strip- and the West Bank, to an extent. Once I researched the matter, I found out this barbarism was not exclusive to Gaza but to a disturbingly large area of the Muslim world... and, recently, Europe, America, and Australia.

    Posted 2 years ago #
11. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    I read the Hamas charter and realized this is not merely a political conflict. Israel may have its religious roots in the conflict, but it's become clear that Hamas has hijacked the Palestinian humanitarian cause and contorted it into an almost purely religious one; their charter, which quotes the Qur'an as its reason for trying to destroy all Jews, is evidence enough. But they also encourage people to 'martyr' themselves, usually through suicide bombing. Where this would put us off from participating in such an activity, people in Gaza (and other places in the Middle East) are so religious that they sincerely believe they will receive 72 virgins in Paradise if they put on a belt of C-4 and kill a few Jews, Christians, or kafir [non-Muslims] once they detonate themselves in a market square. The ultimate goal is to reach Paradise, and the only way to do that is to martyr oneself- to die with honor.

    These, of course, are Muslims who are wildly religious. The totality of Muslim fundamentalists who would do such a thing only make up about 1% or 2% of the global Muslim population; clearly, they're not the majority of the Muslim world. But as there are over 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet, that means there are more than 160,000,000 people out there who are willing to blow themselves up or kill non-Muslims to achieve martyrdom, among other things. Remember Theo van Gogh, the guy who drew the Muhammad cartoon in 2006 which started all those riots? He was stabbed to death some 17 times in the street and had his throat sliced by an outraged Muslim.

    Posted 2 years ago #
12. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Anyways, bringing it back to Rifqa: her family is not necessarily the standard Muslim family. Obviously, they are a lot more extreme than most, but that doesn't make them not a problem. When you have people who would willingly murder their own son/daughter/wife purely for religious reasons, the scope of what that person is capable of extends on into scary territory. Religious fundamentalism can be a very dangerous thing, and I'm not just talking about Islam.

    Sorry, that got a little long. But there's your answer.

    Posted 2 years ago #
13. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    @Devenox: No, a normal parent would not willingly murder his/her own child. It goes against every psychological, sociological, and emotional reason for being a parent. Looking at it from a purely procreational point of view, it directly contradicts the point of reproducing.

    Usually when we hear about parents who murder their children, they turn out to have some real mental issues going on. However, Rifqa's parents' brains are not damaged; this kind of thing- and worse- happens all the time in Islamic fundamentalist circles in Arab and Muslim countries. Unfortunately.

    Posted 2 years ago #
14. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    No, that's what I've been waiting to hear from in any of the news topics that I have put in the forum.I came to this site to possbily learn something that other students might already know, so you've helped in that regard.

    I read this great article in the New York Times that details the story of a female suicide bomber.Well, she wants to become one, but was caught before she could complete her act of terrorism and is now sitting in a jail cell waiting to be released and complete her mission. Here's the link:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/magazine/16suicide-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&ref=magazine

    What I found most thought intriguing were two things:
    1) I wasn't surprised but was certainly flabbergasted at the accounts she revealed to the interviewer about a 15 year old teenager who was so entranced with the idea of blowing herself up, and her mother had the connections to made that happen.She gets nervous before she is about to commit the act, and they actually have safeguards to ensure that the act will be completed.I have no doubt that you already know this, but someone else affialiated with that individual can press a button and blow that person up if they get second thoughts.
    2)A lot of what she(Baid) says is misinformation, and I wondered why she even got involved with the suicide bombing in the first place. Is it a rejection of the passivity that many women probably face, where in this field at least they can take control of their lives in some sense? Or does it spring from a sense of hopelessness- poverty, your family dying from the violence/war, etc.Is a feeling of humiliation what drives some to do this?

    I would like to hear your thoughts on the second point, and I mean exclusively women, and not children and men.And please correct any misconceptions that I hold about this subject, because I'm sure I have many.

    Posted 2 years ago #
15. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    I'm not sure why my post formatted like that,my apologies:)

    Posted 2 years ago #
16. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Obviously there is no single mindset that drives Islamic militants to commit the crimes against humanity that they do. Where women are concerned, though, I can only imagine. This will take some looking at their role in Islamic society.

    Muslim women, if you can guess, are not entitled to 72 virgins in Paradise as they are female (I guess no one ever thought of giving them 72 male virgins) and in the more religious Islamic circles, they are treated almost like sub-human slaves. They are stoned for being raped, for showing too much skin (an arm, a calf, etc.). In the rare cases where rape victims actually do get a trial, the courts follow Shariah law (Islamic law), based on the Qur'anic tenet that states "a man is worth twice as much as women". So even if two women testify against two men, the two men will win because they have four voices while the women only have two.

    Posted 2 years ago #
17. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    In fundamentalist communities, you'll hear a lot of Muslim women claim that the burqa/hijab/niqab (first 2 are headdresses, last is full-on robe plus a burqa, leaving only a slit for the eyes) help them to stay modest, that it may even give them a sense of empowerment because "men want to see what they look like and don't get to". The initial reason for the burqa is nothing of the sort. It's a method of subjugation, an article of clothing designed to psychologically segregate women from men (in addition to the physical segregation they already experience). Muslim men may dress however they please; they can run stark naked through the streets if they want. But Muslim women have to wear their headcovering in public at all times; in a sense, they are not free to choose how to dress or how they look.

    In many Muslim countries, a lot of Muslim girls, as young as 6 years old (that's six), are married off to Muslim men who are 20, 30, 40 years older than them. Their reason for doing this is that Muhammad had some number of wives, the youngest of whom was 6 (but he didn't consummate their marriage with her until she was 9; he only violated her in other ways until then). In the Muslim world, Muhammed is "al-insan al-kamil", or "the perfect man". It is the life goal of every Muslim man to shape his life, thoughts, and habits to best align with those of Muhammed. So, if Muhammed slept with young girls, then so will Muslim men. Of course, these young girls are not exempt from the brutality with which many Muslim fundamentalist husbands treat their wives.

    Posted 2 years ago #
18. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    You can take all of this knowledge and heap it onto the regular religious mania and hatred that Islamic fundamentalist communities infuse into children when they're young, impressionable, and ripe for indoctrination. Many Muslim textbooks and schools espouse violence and hatred against Christians, non-Muslims, and especially Jews. They blame all wars, all world crises, all problems in the Muslim world on the Jews, and are sure not to leave out the old Jewish blood libel, that Jews kill Muslim/Palestinian babies and drink their blood on the Sabbath. A lot of Muslims also see the Western world as opressive, hostile, and even dangerous to Muslims.

    So what would drive a Muslim women to become a 'martyr', as they call it? Very likely they may be coerced into it; there were recent reports of an old Muslim women in Afghanistan who helped arrange for the raping of young Muslim girls and the convinced them that the only way for them to regain their honor (honor is very important in Islamic society) was to participate in a suicide bombing. So regaining honor is certainly one factor. Manipulating women in such terrifying ways are not uncommon in Islamic militant communities; as honor is such a big part of Islamic life, all that needs to be done is to make women believe they have lost it, either through rape or exposure, and convince them to martyr themselves (kill non-believers or other Muslims who aren't of the appropriate sect).

    Posted 2 years ago #
19. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Another may be, as you said, hopelessness stemming from the abominable way they are treated. And of course, they may even volunteer for such barbarities out of the same religious conviction that drives Muslim men. But more likely they have been coerced and convinced into doing so, like the rape example I gave.

    Examples of the seethingly hateful nature that has been injected into Islamic fundamentalism are voiced every day by their own sheiks, mullahs, and imams around the world. It is arguably the most dangerous form of religious extremism out there due to its intense infatuation with honor, death, and Paradise. Fathi Hammad, an MP of Hamas, said it best in February 2008:

    “[The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen… It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: ‘We desire death like you desire life.’”

    Posted 2 years ago #
20. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    What comes to my mind is an incident in Saudi Arabia where a nine year old girl was married off to a much older man. I think she tried to file for divorce and it was rejected on the grounds that she hadn't hit puberty yet and couldn't file a claim in court like that(?). But the judge said that despite her particular case, he would try to change the law for other girls in her situation,because that shouldn't be happening.Not sure if that had made any headway or not.

    And in Afghanistan, do they still have those laws removing any culpability from a man if he witholds food from a wife not have regular sex and performing other wifely duties to him?

    I ask this not in the nature of Muslim fear mongering but learning more about the culture and laws over in the Middle East.

    Posted 2 years ago #
21. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Karamel, if there's one thing I've learned from studying Islam and the Middle East, it's that some jerk will always call you an Islamophobe for questioning the morals of Muslim extremists, because they think criticizing just one aspect of a religion makes you prejudiced against that entire religion. Society today is so obsessed with being politically correct that it's completely overshot the goal of religious tolerance and made people intolerant of non-bigoted criticism. The people who have done this to me the most were Muslims themselves, usually sympathetic to Muslim militancy in the name of "liberating" Iraq, Afghanistan, or the Palestinians. Muslim fundamentalists perceive any criticism of any form of Islam in the way of insult, because the Qur'an teaches them that they are superior to everyone else on the planet, namely people of other religions and non-believers. Thusly, they will not tolerate being insulted by lesser beings and will do what they can to shut you up.

    Posted 2 years ago #
22. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    This kind of behavior is exemplary in the riots that ensued after the Mohammad cartoon and in Theo van Gogh's murder. The same thing happens in the form of constant threats of violence against publishing houses that consider publishing books critical of Islamic fundamentalism or have pictorial depictions of Muhammed. So the best advice I can give to you is to not worry about being called a racist when regarding Islam, because it's going to happen in one way or another if you ever choose to voice an opinion that is not in blind faith to it.

    Posted 2 years ago #
23. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    As for that law in Afghanistan, I haven't heard anything about it being repealed. The region is still pretty mired in Shariah law, and I don't expect it to improve anytime soon. In the name of human rights, I would study the Middle East for examples of human rights abuses (there's so many). If you're interested to see how Islamic fundamentalism interacts with foreign cultures, I would turn my focus to Europe, America, and maybe Russia and Asia for examples of how Muslim fundamentalists are immigrating to countries and slowly, through public outcry and political action, forcing those countries to adapt to their religious beliefs. Case in point, people in Oxford must wake every morning to the Islamic call to prayer broadcast over megaphones. Britain has legalized Shariah law and Shariah courts. And in America, Michigan is fast become the headquarters for Islamic militancy.

    Posted 2 years ago #
24. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    I guess it's only the bad stories that get published anyways:)

    Posted 2 years ago #
25. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Good point,Tinct, I guess there's no way to please everyone.

    But in places like France, there is a strict form of secularism that cracks down on public forms of religious expression, and things like wearing a hijab to the classroom is not allowed.So, I know that there has been a sort of backlash there against what they consider an encroaching Muslim population.Which is odd,because Bridgette Bardot recently got fined by the court for Anti-Islamic speech, so they are pretty restrictive over there.Definitely don't agree with the government on both topics.

    The Shariah law bit in Britain has puzzled and angered me for so long, I can't believe more people aren't outrageous about it or protests aren't in the news.

    And what fortuitous timing, because on CNN's website today there was an update on the divorce young girl I mentioned earlier:
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/08/26/yemen.divorce/index.html

    Posted 2 years ago #

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